Alexander Tsarev
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Early mushroom at casing layer

Early mushroom at casing layer

12 октября 2009

Hi, i'm at 15days after casing and i have found today some mushroom in some of my beds, is that normal ?? , and i found it in a thin layer of casing some in the edges and some in the middle, about 4 beds from 70 . is that normal and a good sign for a big crop or i'm wrong ???

Ziad Khazzaka


  1. arjuna, 10 мая 2016:

    Dear Mr. Ziad.
    Im my mushroom farm it is very hard to get 3.5 kgs per bag. most of time trichoderma
    & plaster mold attacks predominated.
    How i could i overcome these issues.
    Thanks in advanced.

  2. Tejpal singh, 16 апреля 2016:

    Sir pinning not develop to mushroom shape after first flash

  3. rezan ,Iraq, 25 декабря 2015:

    I have acidic soil and i want to convert it to basic soil, and i know i can add CaCo3 but i want amount of each one in parts

  4. Jovanovic Ljiljana, 31 мая 2011:

    Mr. Pankaj,
    Has different schedule of watering.
    This depends of casing material what you use and also of growing technology.
    In case of using peat moss, or other kind of casing soil, will be different way of watering. Other, in case that you use just casing soil, or you put incubated compost (IC), in casing material, will depending watering program.
    Because of this, it is difficult to give general suggestion about watering.
    Please, can you describe your growing practice, to be able to give you some specific suggestion?
    Best regards.

  5. Anonymous, 27 мая 2011:


  6. masoud abdollahi, 17 ноября 2009:

    would you please tell me about my picture that it is the first flash and ten day after decreasing temp. what is your opinion about pins?

  7. Anonymous, 29 октября 2009:

    my blocks in my growing room

  8. Anonymous, 29 октября 2009:

    I upload many pictures in this forum but dosn't appeer !!!!

  9. Anonymous, 29 октября 2009:

    Dear Mr. Khazzaka,
    This space what you used for pasteurization is not appropriate, for pasteurization.
    It is to big, for small amount, of compost, and you have not proper shelves to put,
    compost for pasteurization.
    If you have not proper pasteurization tunnel, in this space you can put shelves,
    similar as this what you can see in mushroom manuals, for mushroom growing.
    On this racks, you put termorezistent net, and after that, on this net, compost
    and after that start to heat compost.
    But this room, what you wont to use to make pasteurization of compost , is to big, and I do not see where is ventilator, ventilation duct, and air recicling , . All this you need to have, to provide sufficient aeration of compost.
    Please, look photos of Mr. Tsarev, (at photo gallery),you will see there some informations about what looks like, tunnel for pasteurization, or pasteurization room,
    with beds, with compost ready to be pasteurised.
    Best regards. LJiljana Jovanovic

  10. Anonymous, 29 октября 2009:

    Dear Mr. Khazzaka,
    Looking on this few mushrooms, you have good, mushrooms, but it is very difficult to tell anything about production of mushrooms, looking just on few mushrooms.
    I cant make opinion about profit, in Lebanon, because I have not informations, about cost of production no compost no mushrooms.
    70 blocks, gave you 180 kg. it is just 2,6 kg. of cut mushroom /block.
    But it is just first flush, and now you have to watering, to have second flush.
    You can pick mushrooms longer time, just maintain to not have mushrooms diseases, illness, or mushrooms flies, in the growing room.
    Depend of quantity of compost/ block, and how much mushrooms primordius, you have in casing soil, you can pick more mushrooms.

  11. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    about profit, this room cost me about 850$, and i harvest 180kg x 7$ = 1260$ for the 1st flash, thats not too much !!, for the next room i will buy a steam, and i will build a tunnel for bulk compost and i will post every step in this forum

  12. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    thats the straw in the top floor, where i made the phase I

  13. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    my wife at harvesting, we harvest about 180kg at 1st flash in 70blocks about 42m2 of growing surface

  14. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    my growing rooms

  15. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    thats what i called early mushroom, those are at 15days after casing !!!

  16. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    My farm consist of 8 growing room

  17. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    preweting straw

  18. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    here is y pasteurization room phase II

  19. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    here i put it in small blocks for pasteurization

  20. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    here is some pictures of my blocks

  21. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    Mr. Khazzaka,
    Sorry, I cant give you my email,
    Here, you can send photos,
    Administrator will help you to put them on forum.
    He told you that.
    I will answer, on this information's you gave here, but,
    maybe i did not understand properly,
    When you make blocks, and how you put compost for pasteurization?
    How much water you give? 50 liters ?
    And what surface you irrigate with this quantity of water?
    Problem with cooling down, you can try to resolver, using night cold air,
    to cool down, temperature in air and compost ?
    ow beginning cold weather, even in Lebanon, or i wrong?
    Good luck with mushrooms.

  22. Anonymous, 25 октября 2009:

    Dear Mr. Khazzaka
    I am sorry, i didn't had time to reed messages.
    I will get it tomorrow, and reed it.
    Something, I do not understand,
    About what blocs you speak, in tunnel for pasteurization.
    Do you have pasteurization on the beads, shelves,
    or you have compost pasteurization in the bulk?
    Sincerely yours

  23. adm, 18 октября 2009:

    Could you please send photos to <A HREF="" CLASS="lnk"></A>.

  24. Anonymous, 18 октября 2009:

    Dear, Mr. Jovanovic, i will try to post pictures to understand what i do, at the end of phase I, Compost Humidity is optimal about 74%, Brown Choclat color, smell of Amonia.

    I put it in my tunnel in blocks, compost loose temp during filling in tunnel, started about 47C, Tunnel Specs:4M X 6M X 3M about 72Cubic Meter, I have 900CM/Hr FAN, when i started phase II it's take 3 days to get 60c on all blocks, and lot of vapor from my made steam, thats why at end of phaseII my compost is too wet !!
    for next rooom i will buy a new steam 150Kg/hr (electric one)
    and i will post day by day of all information i got with pictures

    for PHASE I, we don't have a laboratory in our region, to measure C/N, but i think with 30Kg of nitrate amonia, and 10K of UREA for 1400Kg of Straw and 900Kg of C, Manure is enouph to get 2.5% N in Compost at PHASE II,

    in my room now, i put casing in optimal moister and i irrigated after 1 day with Pesticide and Formalin, no sign of any insects in the casing layer till now

    My blocks are 120Cm X 56Cm X 25Cm, compost filled at 20Cm compresed
    i irrigate the room about 50Litre of water after 10days of casing and then after 2 days continus till now

    i try to let the bed temp to drop below 70F, but i can't !! My Acs at 17C the air in the room at 18 to 19C

    i made phase I outdoor, i will send u some pictures in this forum or by email, (give me your email please)
    for CO2 my meter indicate 1000 to 1300ppm

    for the next room i will post every step by step with pictures, and we will discuss all information

    thanks a lot Mr. Jovanovic, u seem u are a porfessional in Mushroom Cultivation, glade to contact U

  25. Anonymous, 18 октября 2009:

    Part 2.
    1 m2 we calculate 4 blocks, and depend of blocks weight, you can calculate quantity of mushrooms you can expect to pick out, from this compost. 1 ton of spawned, (II faze compost) can gives about 25-30% of cut mushrooms.
    But, this will very much depending of your “growing politic” in your room.
    More hygiene, better picking, watering with growing schedule, all this will provide you more mushrooms,
    All what you will do and this is not properly, will take you some % of mushrooms yield,
    On the end of growing these mushrooms you will see how much mushrooms you got from this kind of composting, pasteurization, and growing technique.
    For me is strange, why compost had to be 3 days till get 60C, and why you think that 60 C, you had to get in 36 hours.
    Normally compost temperature in pasteurization tunnel, had to be at 60 C next day,
    Not waiting next 2 days to start pick heating, at 60C.
    Somewhat happened?
    For this small quantity of compost, and wet compost, in my opinion you not need, steam, just your compost by him, has to get temperatures. If you have problems with outside air temperatures, you can see for heating device, on fresh air inlet, to not have very cold outer air, you will needed in tunnel. .
    And on end, of all, mushrooms not grows all at once, they grows, in the flushes, in way they formed primordias. One flush is about 4-5 days or more or less, depend how much mushrooms you have on compost surface.
    I hope I gave you some answers what will help you.
    Best regards
    Because I forgot how much space I had here, has Part 1, and Part 2.

  26. Anonymous, 18 октября 2009:

    Dear Mr. Khazzaka,
    Let we start from end of your letter.
    Steam can’t be only problem, or can be bigger problem if you use it, not correctly.
    If you have very wet compost, and you give inside steam, it will be worst.
    But why you have very wet compost?
    Please, how you made your compost, fermentation in Indoor tunnel, or outside, in windrow.
    Looking at, what you put in your compost I can’t tell about C/N relation, you have there, but I do not think that N is lo. It is depend of how much N has in chicken manure?
    Did you control compost humidity?
    If you can’t send it in laboratory, just by your palm strength, you can control how much water has inside. When you start prewetting, you have to have high humidity of compost, but not excess, about 75 % ,
    Later on, this quantity of water has to be reduced, to enter in pasteurization tunnel, not more than 70-72 %. With 6 days of pasteurization, you will have compost with about 66-68% of humidity, and you will not see water, on surface of compost, just in the straw, when you squeeze it.
    If you haven’t NH3, on end pasteurization,( did you control it?) those miens, that you finished pasteurization and conditioning, OK.
    You made blocks, incubation was 13 days, temperature about 22 &#186;C in compost. Till now, all is OK.
    You used peat moss and CaCO3, and pH 7, 6 ;all OK!.
    How wet was peat moss before you cased compost?
    Dry or wet ? Did you disinfected it after that, using some pesticides?
    How much water you used for it?
    First, you put casing, It can be small problem, if you left mycelium to growing till 4 cm. in casing soil.
    You did scratching before it, in some of blocks!
    When you start temperature shock?
    How you cool down, temperature in the compost. With lo, temperature in air, 17 C, mycelium cold finished early vegetatve growt, and started to make primordias, in the casing soil, not on the surface of casing soil, or I don’t understand you good.
    You did not told, how much water you gave during watering of mushrooms, after pining?
    With small room, and 45 m2 growing surface, (depend how much compost/m2) you have, you can have rather good quantity of mushrooms, but this will depend of how much mushrooms you have, how much water you gave during mushrooms growing,
    and about CO2, in the air, temperatures in compost and air, and hygienic measures you will take, and what long time you will pick mushrooms, 1 m2 we calculate 4 blocks.

  27. Anonymous, 16 октября 2009:

    Till now i can't login! to post pictures, i don't know why, because i don't understand russian, well some information about my room:

    <li>MY ACS at 17°C all the days and night from the 12day after casing and scratching</li>
    <li>blocks temp are 70°F all of them</li>
    <li>no mycellium in top layer, i found only under the casing, and there is some primordia in some blocks but in the edges !!!!, i agree i have a problem in my casing layer!!!</li>
    <li>scratching blocks till now 19days after casing no mycellium in top</li>
    <li>RH is 85%</li>
    <li>i harvest about 20 to 30KG every day starting from 5 days early</li>
    <li>i think there is about 200 to 250KG pinheads still growing</li>
    <li>mushroom ages are different even in the same block</li>
    <li>spawning colonization in my compost take 13days to fully colonized</li>
    <li>my growing room contain about 45m<sup>2</sup> ok compost (70 blocks)</li>
    <li>casing materials: Peat + Lime + calcaire(i don't know in english), PH Level 7.6, and there is no sign of bacteria in my blocks till now.</li>
    <li>Compost Specs at PHASE I: 1400 kg of straw, 900 kg of chicken manure, 45 kg of cottonsead, 30 kg of nitrate amonia, 10 kg of urea, and 100 kg of gypson</li>
    <li>Composting Time is 14Days, I turned every 2 days At 60°C not 70°C</li>

    I have no Steam for my Pasteurization Room !!! but i build a small one, the problem is its take too long to get 60&quot;C on my compost about 3 days to get 60C, not 36hrs!!! and 5 days at 52C after 7days my compost is ready no amonia, compost is pinned by white points, every things may be good but a lot of water inside the compost !!! is that a problem !!!!, i think YESSSS !!!

    I'm confused about the Steam, i don't know how much KG/Hr that i need and how much bars 0.5 or 2 ot 10!!!

    Thanks a lot

  28. Anonymous, 16 октября 2009:

    Dear Mr. Khazzaka
    An other suggestion,
    Look on photos in photo gallery of Mr. Tsarev,
    You will see some pictures what will help you to see what is happened with your blocks, mycelium and casing soil ....
    Maybe you will recognize your situation.
    Best wishes
    Ljiljana Jovanovic

  29. Anonymous, 16 октября 2009:

    Dear Mr. Khazzaka,
    You did scratching of 7 blocks, But, when you did it?
    Did you waited till mycelium grown up til 3 -4 cm. in casing soil. Or you did it, before.
    This casing about 6 cm,is rather thick layer,
    Normally casing soil has to be 4cm or 5, depend of what casing soil you used, And in this case you had to wait til mycelium grows even higher, in casing.
    When you watered? How much water , you gave on m2. When did you do it?
    What are temperatures of compost and air in the growing room, and CO2 ?
    All this can make some influence on mushrooms primordia formation, even is to early, to get primordias, 15 days after casing.
    But it is very difficult to explain to you in this way, without other information's.
    You can aspect mushroom, primordias, small white &quot;pinheads&quot; on casing surface or under surface, later. This depend of temperatures in the growing room, and CO2 concentration, is lo, you can aspect that they formed under casing soil.
    About 20-tenth or 22-nth day, you can see them. After you can start to watering again.
    It is early to tell what happened with mushrooms, you have mycelium growing yet, and be patient, just control, where is mycelium now.
    After you can decide, what to do.

  30. adm, 15 октября 2009:

    Please, <A HREF="; CLASS="lnk" TARGET="_blank">register</A>. Only registered users can upload images:

  31. Anonymous, 14 октября 2009:

    for scratching, i mad scratching for 7 blocks only , and till now no sign for mushroom on it, the casing layer is about 5 to 6 cm on these beds after scratching, i can show you some picture if this forum support pictures

  32. Anonymous, 14 октября 2009:

    Thank's for your help, but can i post pictures in this forum for my growing room..?
    and is there a way to recover this situation ?

  33. Anonymous, 14 октября 2009:

    Dear Mr. Khazzaka,
    This mushrooms what you find on border of bags, are not early mushrooms,
    They just grown up, because casing soil was thin and probably your temperatures in the air was low.
    In normal situation, with 4-5 cm of casing soil, on surface of compost, you will not find this mushrooms,
    It is not sign of good production.
    I hope you will have in other bags or on blocks, good mushrooms, and high production, but this is just sign that casing soil is thin, and had to be thicker.
    In case you not make scratching, you can aspect mushrooms about 20-23 days, after casing. In case you did scratching, you can aspect mushrooms to pick after 25 days of casing .
    Best regards Ljiljana


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